da Plane da Plane

Splitfire · Post by **Splitfire** » Wed Apr 04, 2001 11:45 pm

The idea that this is all media hype is absolutely ridiculous. This is a big deal whether everyone knows about it or no one knows about it. This is not like the election recount of a few months ago that was by-and-large media fanned. This has the potential to be a major international crisis any way you look at it, regardless of reporting.

dadx2mj · Post by **dadx2mj** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 2:07 am

Unbeleivable I have to agree with Spitfire on this one. They are holding 24 American Military people. If they don't release them we as a country would be bound to take what ever action nesisary to release them. If this thing were to turn into a war and I don't think it will there is no way that China could win if pushed to the extreme the U.S. has the power to destroy the whole earth not just China. I am not saying that we could go to war with China and come out smelling like a rose by any stretch of the imagination but I just don't think that China would come out the winner in a war with the U.S. Hopefully we will never know for sure.

plucky duck · Post by **plucky duck** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:14 am

NOONE wins in a war, its a lose lose situation nobody wants to see happen.

I think EVERYONE here needs to chill. Take it easy fellas, cool your engines

And oh yes, one more thing, please keep any racist remarks or name callings (if any) to yourselves thanks, I don't wanna have to curse anybody (although it'd be much fun)

.

Plucky

Kakarot · Post by **Kakarot** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 9:00 am

If we did go to war we'd whoop da shiat outta china. Japan said it best back in WWII when they attacked us and started the fight... "I'm afraid we awoke the sleeping giant" the United States may seem like we're weak at times but trust me, when everyone in the nation gets fired up about something(like in WWII) there is no stopping our war machine. The only problem with a war starting between china and the USA is that it wouldn't stay that way. Other countries would get involved on both sides and it would be another world war.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 10:59 am

What I meant to say is... if there were no media hype, the Chinese will probably release the plane and the people right away, thus making a flavor to the US and remind friends with the US(where everybody win), but those stupid Governor announced that the Chinese refused to release the plane/people in public. Therefore making the Chinese lose face if they release the people that were spying on them so easily. It will make every other country think that it's ok to spy on China. I know it's tough, but China's leader do have to let other countries know that they (in theory) cannot spy on China. (I know everybody spy on everyone, but don't make it public that it's ok to do it!)

It's as simple as that IMO.

BTW, Bush isn't doing very well... personally I think Clinton is 100x smarter than Bush in solving International crisis/problems. And Clinton is doing it the smart way where everybody win(economically) by being friends with other countries. Bush is just, Kill Kill Kill, we are the best, we don't have to be friends with anyone. Although he might be right, but it's definitely not healthy for a global market we have right now. Especially for long term relationship, Bush is extremely bad at it IMO...

smb · Post by **smb** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 11:10 am

How is Bush "kill kill kill" this is his first real international test. And If you do your research, you would find that clinton was passive when it came to the chinese. I guess all that theiving now makes china a bunch of hard a$$es, thinking that they now run the show. Perhaps if Clinton would have done what he was suppose to do, ie.. take a stance of "you screw America..you pay the price"

I find it kind of hard to believe that the aircraft made an abrupt turn. those aircraft are on autopilot from takeoff to landing, and are programmed to fly along waypoints.

or maybe...

China is just so embarrased that a turbo prop aircraft could overtake one of their "state of the art" chinese migs, and in order to save face, blamed it all on the american pilots.

[Edited by smb on 04-05-2001 at 12:16 PM]

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 11:55 am

I was referring to Bush as Kill Kill Kill in the Iraq bombing...

I still think Cliton did a much better job as a president. Even your own American show like Madtv / Saturday night live make fun of Bush as a childish kid, but not with Clinton, they just acted Clinton as a perv...

Did anyone watch last week's Saturday night live? It was funny...

It's actually good that Clinton was "passive", because look at your economy, it's booming because of what Clinton did, be friends with other countries like China. Lots of Import/Exports, everybody is happy, everybody is making money$$$. Look at the era when the "Bushes" were in charge, economy were much worst for America(and worldwide). But then again, it "could" be the Business cycle kicking in... ???

[Edited by Coco on 04-05-2001 at 01:05 PM]

bitSLAP · Post by **bitSLAP** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:04 pm

The aircraft in question is an EP-3. These things are F*cking cows. Most of them are almost 20 years old, although this one looks pretty new. "spy plane" was a term dubbed by the media.

You can't spy with an EP-3 per say. They look like someone spilled tar on the radar screen. I'm actually glad these are flying around. Especially China where the government won't even make public their weapons technology.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:09 pm

Just a honest question BitSlap, do you think American military tell the truth when it comes to the "actual #" of weapons they have? I highly doubt it... I just respect the fact that every government will not be stupid enough to let others know how strong/weak they really are.

China will lie, America will lie, French will lie, English will lie, but not Canada, we have no weapons at all

bitSLAP · Post by **bitSLAP** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:23 pm

No, I don't think they are honest. But we know the US has enough to blow up the world 10 times over, so it doesn't really matter.

Second, the US and other democratic nations don't take over countries. Don't make that into another arguement. You know what I mean.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:37 pm

I don't think China is one of those that want to take over another country. I would be more worried about Japan, coz they still teach those "army/war thinking", and they acutally removed all history about what Japan did in WWII in the text books... Right now I believe the Governor who approved those text books are getting sued by other Japanese citizen who want their kids to learn about the truth. It's a long story, look it up on other news site...

We don't need a country that can blow up our world 10x... all it takes is 3 nuclear bomb(doesn't matter where in the world) and all living things will disappear from earth. And I am sure French/Chinese/American/Koren/German/English/India/middle east countries, etc etc all have more than 3 nuclear bomb each...

blade · Post by **blade** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:56 pm

Are you chinese coco? You keep defending them and you enjoy questioning the usa.

Anyway there should be no war over this. At worst we *might do some naval blockades if they continue to hold our citizens hostage or even attempt to destroy the plane if they refuse to give it back.

Anyone remember the Pueblo? See here
http://www.usspueblo.org/

In short that was a usa "spy ship" in international waters that was forced to go to North Korea and it's 82 crewman were prisoners for 11 months in 1968 before being released. One died during the takeover. Read about it at that link, it's very interesting how things happened and how they were treated.

But we never went to war. Different times now but I doubt we will. Although I wouldn't feel sorry for them at all if we made a few of their military installations go poof.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 1:15 pm

Yes, I am from HK, have been in Canada since I was little. People in HK don't really like the China Government IMO, but all I am saying is that all government will lie at some point to protect themselves, as simple as that. That's what I mean by no difference.

[Edited by Coco on 04-05-2001 at 02:32 PM]

bitSLAP · Post by **bitSLAP** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 1:15 pm

Tibet comes to mind. Perhaps you forgot.

They aren't the only ones. As stated earlier, China has been bullying nearby countries for a long time.

Splitfire · Post by **Splitfire** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 1:20 pm

I still think Cliton did a much better job as a president. Even your own American show like Madtv / Saturday night live make fun of Bush as a childish kid...

Leave it to a Canadian to consider MadTV and SNL a reputable source of news.

And don't give me "well if SNL says so, than all Americans must feel that way." SNL hasn't had anyhting original in the last 5 years, if not more. Get a clue dude.

You can't spy with an EP-3 per say.

The EP3 is an electronic survelliance (?sp) plane. While it may not be the same idea as say a U2 or SR-71, but stealing the enemy's communications and trying to figure out what they say (which IS what the EP3 does) IS spying. Spying by any other name is still spying. Sorry, but saying this has been dubbed by the media is incredibly short sighted.

And everyone else who keeps saying that the US would stomp China is SADLY mistaken. With the US military in its current state, we couldn't even put on an operation HALF the size of Desert Storm. The DoD has said as much. And China is not some obsolete, worthless military as many of you are trying to paint it as. While the Chinese technology may not be as sophisticated as American in <i>some</i> areas, that slight technologial edge disappears VERY quickly when you are facing 3 or 4 enemies that are only slightly out-of-date. Sheer numbers will beat strategy and technology 9 times out of 10.