About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

This car is systematic, hyyydromatic...why it's greased lightning!
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Losbot
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About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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I personally don't want an EV unless it can become less of an inconvenience on longer road trips. Even with more charging stations popping up, I don't want to stop for hours, waiting to charge up.
I appreciate that it's great for those who drive few miles a day and it's more practical but this whole push by the Left to get rid of gas engines is a bit much. California wants to ban the sales of all new gas-powered cars within 15 years. So I guess that means more cars plugging into an already shitty electric grid over there? SMH

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/about-1 ... n-evs.html
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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California is banning new sales in state. You can continue driving your existing gas guzzler past the ban date, and presumably buy one outside of the state and bring it in. I would guess they'd be raising gas taxes as a discouragement? Not sure about the last part, but they'd have to do something like that or huge dealers would just be popping up in border towns.

Personally I think it's not smart to mandate electrics. Elon Musk is right. Let the demand grow on it's own and the market will compensate. More people do want electrics which is good, but it's not for everyone.

It's kind of like hybrids. It's more than a niche, but not everyone wants one.
- It doesn't matter that you don't believe in climate change. What matters is that your insurance company does.

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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

Post by reno »

Im not sure were I read. that in the long run EV cost more damage then Gas combustion engines to the environment. due to the disposing of the battery and some of the car components. then the environmental costs to produce these cars today .
Im not one who even has a electric car or truck in my near (10-15 years ) future.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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It's very hard to calculate because there's so many factors involved, but yes there are some estimates that, taking everything into account, make electrics environmentally equal to, or even worse than gas cars. Personally I doubt it's actually worse because it would take a LOT to offset all the gasoline you're going to put in a car over it's lifetime, but it's certainty possible.

One of the hardest things to calculate is the source of electricity since everyone gets their electricity from different sources, and that makes a big difference in the carbon footprint.

Still, even with these questions, electric has it's place. If you have a city, like LA, with severe smog, it makes sense to encourage electrics. You may just be moving the carbon footprint to power plants outside the city, but it makes the city a better place to live.
- It doesn't matter that you don't believe in climate change. What matters is that your insurance company does.

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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Only way EV can be cleaner is if its a Nuclear grid.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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FlyingPenguin wrote:California is banning new sales in state. You can continue driving your existing gas guzzler past the ban date, and presumably buy one outside of the state and bring it in. I would guess they'd be raising gas taxes as a discouragement? Not sure about the last part, but they'd have to do something like that or huge dealers would just be popping up in border towns.
Doubt you can just bring it in without modifying it to meet California's crazy emissions requirements.


Good points here: Going electric is cool, but gas-powered cars will always be cooler
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/gas-power ... 85599.html

TL/DR:
01 DISTANCE MATTERS
02 LACK OF CHARGING STATIONS
03 TIME IS MONEY
04 NOBODY MENTIONS MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT COSTS
05 PRICES FOR ELECTRIC CARS COULD BALLOON DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD
06 ELECTRIC CARS ACTUALLY NEED FOSSIL FUELS, TOO
07 ELECTRIC CAR TECHNOLOGY IS STILL IN ITS INFANCY
08 BEING QUICK OFF THE LINE IS FUN, BUT SUSTAINED TOP SPEED IS WHERE THE REAL THRILL LIES
09 NO SOUND, NO FUN
10 PRICING AND VARIETY CONUNDRUMS
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Assuming that charging is readily available, the issue with an electric car is ROI. I actually thought about a Model 3 LR before buying my Camry this year. I put it side by side with the Camry and Camry Hybrid. I even put gas at $3.00 /gallon with is way more than it's been in Ohio lately. I also took into account oil changes and car payment. At best, I break even but the Camry non-hybrid is cheaper per month for me to own. I don't get the benefits of a Hybrid as my 160 round trip commute is all highway so the mark up for that model didn't make sense for me. Would the Model 3 be funner to drive? Probably. I would still consider getting an EV IF I can plug it in at work. Wintertime is is big problem for me and an EV. I can plug in at home and keep it charged no matter how cold it gets but at work, the battery is going to drain throughout the day on top of the loss from being cold. If I could plug in at even a 120V, that would be enough to keep the battery warm.

I think the Cadillac dealers are using EV's as an excuse to close their dealerships. We're probably going to be in a recession for the next 2 years so selling $70K cars is going to be difficult.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Err wrote:I think the Cadillac dealers are using EV's as an excuse to close their dealerships. We're probably going to be in a recession for the next 2 years so selling $70K cars is going to be difficult.
It's my understanding that GM is buying those dealerships so they can either run them or sell them to others who ARE on board with EVs.

I don't believe GM is having trouble selling cars. GM is selling the brand new Escallades right now like hotcakes. You can't get one unless you order it. They're at least like 80k. Then there's the Corvette which has between a 10 to 14 month wait, just to submit your order, because of the demand. They're cranking out about 150-180/day to keep up with domestic and international demand. There are people who have their names on a wait list for the '22 Corvette Z06 which hasn't even been announced yet.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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As for EVs, there's also the cost of having to replace those batteries when they're shot. Those can run from $10k to $20k or more depending on the output.

I get that people want to "save the earth" but all those batteries are gonna end up somewhere after they're useless. There's the fossil fuels we're burning to charge them. An MIT professor already stated that we'll not reach net zero emissions globally by 2050. The cost is also crazy high. 2100 is probably a more realistic year.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Tesla batteries are warrantied for 150K miles or 8 years, whichever comes first. They've been around long enough that in actuality people are seeing a battery life 300K miles, so I don't think that's an issue. A normal car would need it's tranny replaced by that time, and would be a comparable expense.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Fair enough but how about the manufacture of new batteries? We're gonna mine out the planet for cobalt (which is toxic), copper, nickel & lithium to make these things. If we're gonna outlaw gas, I'd rather just burn corn and switch to ethanol which can reduce emissions 100% in cars and have a positive effect on greenhouse gas emissions. The benefits of gasoline but we don't have to dig out the planet.

I just don't believe EV cars is the perfect solution like many make it out to be.

https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/etha ... tudy-finds
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Oh I'm not convinced either, just pointing out that they are getting some long lifespans on these packs.

On top of that, when they're no good for your car, they can still be used in grid battery farms for several years, and Tesla is also working on recovering materials from them when they're no good anymore.

The question is, will it be enough? Recycling (real recycling) of rare earths from electronics have, for the most part been a miserable failure, and this seems to be harder.

Where 3 Million Electric Vehicle Batteries Will Go When They Retire?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... hey-retire
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Agreed. We SUCK at recycling. More and more cites that started recycling programs have just about abandoned those programs. Some are collecting from the recycle bins and combining with the trash. It's not that cost effective.
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Re: About 150 Cadillac dealers take GM buyouts rather than invest in EVs

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Update: I read an article that about 1 out of every 3 that get an EV, have gone back to gas-powered cars. One of the YouTube bloggers ditched his Tesla X for a gas car. I can see why now.

Recently, our friends came to visit and stay with us. They live about an hour North of Orlando. It's about a 4 hours drive down. We were discussing the whole EV vs Gas and of course he's all about EVs, now that he has a Tesla. Problem I saw is that they had to stop twice for about 30-45 mins each time and when they got here, he asked if he could plug in. Of course on a 110v outlet, the car apparently charges at a rate of about 4 miles per hour, so in the morning, they were discussing how they first needed to go to a supercharger and sit there for another 45 mins so they could get to the next one after that.

The other issue I found interesting was that 2 weeks later, we all met up in Vero Beach and stayed at a resort. It had EV chargers. He plugged in and according to the Tesla, it would be done charging at 2am. He was a little annoyed because it meant that he would either have to go downstairs and out to the parking lot to move his vehicle or he could move it in the morning but would incur hours of "idle charges" where these companies charge you for having the car taking up space, connected but not actually charging. He decided to sleep in. It cost him $15 to charge and he was hit with some $13 in idle fees.

I'd rather pay for gas and not be that inconvenienced. ICE cars are becoming more efficient and if we went the bio-fuel route, there would be zero emissions but everyone's all crazy about batteries.
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