Now who are the liars

[blade]

Copied this from another forum.

quote:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998



quote:
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998



quote:
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998



quote:
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998



quote:
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998



quote:
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998



quote:
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999



quote:
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001



quote:
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002



quote:
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002



quote:
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002



quote:
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002



quote:
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002



quote:
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002



quote:
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002



quote:
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002



quote:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002



quote:
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002



quote:
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

But in a political year isn't it amazin' how some things get twisted around for their benefit.

[Red Dawn]

I wonder if they were duped by the Iranians like the Dub's Administration was:

The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that a U.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress has been used for years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the United States and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according to intelligence sources.

"Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States through Chalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Program information to provoke the United States into getting rid of Saddam Hussein," said an intelligence source Friday who was briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency's conclusions, which were based on a review of thousands of internal documents...

Patrick Lang, former director of the intelligence agency's Middle East branch, said he had been told by colleagues in the intelligence community that Chalabi's U.S.-funded program to provide information about weapons of mass destruction and insurgents was effectively an Iranian intelligence operation. "They [the Iranians] knew exactly what we were up to," he said.

He described it as "one of the most sophisticated and successful intelligence operations in history."

"I'm a spook. I appreciate good work. This was good work," he said..

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uschal0522,0,340595.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines

[Red Dawn]

Gen. Zinni: 'They've Screwed Up'

(CBS) Accusing top Pentagon officials of "dereliction of duty," retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni says staying the course in Iraq isn't a reasonable option.

"The course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course," he tells CBS News Correspondent Steve Kroft in an interview to be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, May 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

The current situation in Iraq was destined to happen, says Zinni, because planning for the war and its aftermath has been flawed all along.

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this...poor operational planning and execution on the ground," says Zinni, who served as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000.

Zinni blames the poor planning on the civilian policymakers in the administration, known as neo-conservatives, who saw the invasion as a way to stabilize the region and support Israel. He believes these people, who include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy.

"They promoted it and pushed [the war]... even to the point of creating their own intelligence to match their needs. Then they should bear the responsibility," Zinni tells Kroft.

In his upcoming book, "Battle Ready," written with Tom Clancy, Zinni writes of the poor planning in harsh terms. "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption," he writes.

Zinni explains to Kroft, "I think there was dereliction in insufficient forces being put on the ground and [in not] fully understanding the military dimensions of the plan."

He still believes the situation is salvageable if the United States can communicate more effectively with the Iraqi people and demonstrate a better image to them.

The enlistment of the U.N. and other countries to participate in the mission is also crucial, he says. Without these things, says Zinni, "We are going to be looking for quick exits. I don't believe we're there now, and I wouldn't want to see us fail here."

Also central to success in Iraq is more troops, from the United States and especially other countries, to control violence and patrol borders, he says.

Zinni feels that undertaking the war with the minimum of troops paved the way for the security problems the U.S. faces there now, the violence Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recently admitted he hadn't anticipated.

"He should not have been surprised," says Zinni. "There were a number of people who before we even engaged in this conflict felt strongly that we underestimated...the scope of the problems we would have in [Iraq]."

The fact that no one in the administration has paid for the blunder irks Zinni. "But regardless of whose responsibility [it is]...it should be evident to everybody that they've screwed up, and whose heads are rolling on this?"

© MMIV, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

This is what General Shineski thought would happen prior to the war if there weren't enough boots on the ground. Of course Rummy dismissed him for his opinion!

[sbp]

Nice try at diversion that WMD have been found.

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by sbp
Nice try at diversion that WMD have been found.

Huzzah! Almost a 100 Billion Dollars and 800 American Servicemen's live for a WMD (actually 2, a cannister of Mustard gas was found 2 weeks earleir!)

[Lmandrake]

Vice President Richard Cheney

"He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

Source: Meet the Press, NBC (3/16/2003).

President George W. Bush

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).

Secretary of State Colin Powell

"How do I know that? How can I say that? Let me give you a closer look. Look at the image on the left. On the left is a close-up of one of the four chemical bunkers. The two arrows indicate the presence of sure signs that the bunkers are storing chemical munitions."

Source: Remarks to the United Nations Security Council, United Nations (2/5/2003).

President George W. Bush

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States."

Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Secretary of State Colin Powell

"So far, we have found the biological weapons vans that I spoke about when I presented the case to the United Nations on the 5th of February, and there is no doubt in our minds now that those vans were designed for only one purpose, and that was to make biological weapons."

Source: Interview with French Television 1, TF-1 (5/22/2003).

Statement by Secretary of State Colin Powell

"Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets. Even the low end of 100 tons of agent would enable Saddam Hussein to cause mass casualties across more than 100 square miles of territory, an area nearly five times the size of Manhattan."

Source: Remarks to the United Nations Security Council, United Nations (2/5/2003).



Lets see - the Unmanned Aerial Vehicles were converted to use uranium fuel. They were then used to fly the reconstituted nuclear weapons to Syria. The remainder of the trips were used to carry the 500 tons of chemical agents across the border. The disappearance of the bunkers is hard to explain, but some experts believe the UAV's, once powered with the Nigerian uranium instead of conventional fuels, had sufficient capability to lift the bunkers out of the ground and carry them out of Iraq.

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by Lmandrake
Vice President Richard Cheney

"He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

Source: Meet the Press, NBC (3/16/2003).

President George W. Bush

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).

Secretary of State Colin Powell

"How do I know that? How can I say that? Let me give you a closer look. Look at the image on the left. On the left is a close-up of one of the four chemical bunkers. The two arrows indicate the presence of sure signs that the bunkers are storing chemical munitions."

Source: Remarks to the United Nations Security Council, United Nations (2/5/2003).

President George W. Bush

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States."

Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Secretary of State Colin Powell

"So far, we have found the biological weapons vans that I spoke about when I presented the case to the United Nations on the 5th of February, and there is no doubt in our minds now that those vans were designed for only one purpose, and that was to make biological weapons."

Source: Interview with French Television 1, TF-1 (5/22/2003).

Statement by Secretary of State Colin Powell

"Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets. Even the low end of 100 tons of agent would enable Saddam Hussein to cause mass casualties across more than 100 square miles of territory, an area nearly five times the size of Manhattan."

Source: Remarks to the United Nations Security Council, United Nations (2/5/2003).

Those reports led me to support the invasion and occuaption of Iraq, there is no doubt that a lot of those quotes by the Dems made after 2001 were based on those same mistaken assertions given by the Dub's administration.

As for Clinton and his minions, obviously they were mistaken too.

[Red Dawn]

Even leadin Conservatives and Neocons are criticising the Dub on Iraq

By Dana Milbank and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers

Monday, May 10, 2004; Page A01

...Last Tuesday, columnist George F. Will sharply criticized the administration's Iraq policy, writing: "This administration cannot be trusted to govern if it cannot be counted on to think and, having thought, to have second thoughts." Two days earlier, Robert Kagan, a neoconservative supporter of the Iraq war, wrote: "All but the most blindly devoted Bush supporters can see that Bush administration officials have no clue about what to do in Iraq tomorrow, much less a month from now."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13027-2004May9.html

By George F. Will
Friday, April 30, 2004; Page A29

...military commanders in Iraq face agonizing choices entailed by those antiseptic political locutions "regime change" and "nation building." The commander in chief seems not to fathom the depth of the difficulties when he describes the insurgent cleric Moqtada Sadr as a person who will not "allow democracy to flourish." Allow? If some bad people would just behave, democracy would sprout like tulips?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54900-2004Apr29.html

[Oatmeal]

Some of you completely missed the point:

"Now who are the liars?"

As the title suggests, Red Dawn has tried to show that there are no WMD in Iraq, and assuming that's true, then virtually the entire liberal left wing had lied also, and they have no right to point a red finger at the Bush administration.

Al Gore pushed for the war. The liberal media has turned a blind eye to his (and Clinton's) about-face; which is purely caused by their dislike of Bush.

We continue to find WMD more and more, meaning that the left is wrong, even if there were none. No matter what's true now, Kerry is wrong.

[Red Dawn]

No matter what's true now, Kerry is wrong.

True. The only thing he has going regarding this issue is that he wasn't the guy who started this ill conceived action over in that shithole

[nitro237]

Since the democrats (Clinton and his gang) had the same opinions about wmd and Iraq while they were in office that Bush and his gang have , why are they bashing now ? Did they figure this all out and keep the information to themselves to make Bush look bad ?

If Gore had been elected instead of Bush , would he have figured out what everyone else , dems and repubs , were wrong about Iraq and set everybody straight ?

Just because you invent the internet doesn't make you a good President


We are in a war over there , a war most democrats supported before it started , now they want to say they don't support it and it was wrong . You know , the day after the super bowl , the losing coach knows all the plays he should have called the day before .

[dadx2mj]

Yeah what nitro said!!!

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by nitro237
Since the democrats (Clinton and his gang) had the same opinions about wmd and Iraq while they were in office that Bush and his gang have , why are they bashing now ? Did they figure this all out and keep the information to themselves to make Bush look bad ?

If Gore had been elected instead of Bush , would he have figured out everyone else , dems and repubs , were wrong about Iraq and set everybody straight ?

Just because you invent the internet doesn't make you a good President


We are in a war over there , a war most democrats supported before it started , now they want to say they don't support it and it was wrong . You know , the day after the super bowl , the losing coach knows all the plays he should have called the day before .

Funny how you associate the Idiots responsible for the Clusterfsck in Iraq to a Superbowl winning team

[dadx2mj]

Red I believe it is called an "analogy" not an association

[nitro237]

Sorry , it was definitely just an analogy , figured everyone realized that .


Red Dawn , were you able to get the point I was trying to make or did the Super Bowl totally throw you ?