I don't know how many of you are like myself, where I'm in a close proximity to to the southern border with Mexico. IMHO, illegal immigration has destroyed jobs like construction by lowering wages. I still remember when being a dry-wall installer brought you good money in the early 80's. Hell, even my teenage kids had a hard time getting a job because they would rather hire an illegal for $5/hr and no other benefits. I'm also pissed off at President Bush, as it seems he's sucking Vicente Fox's dick with his stupid guest worker program that is nothing more than ammensty. When are we going to have a President with some balls to tell Mr Fox where he can shove his problems?
I'm also pissed off that all the ignorante kids from school that instead of waving an American flag, they fly the Mexican flag and ours upside down. You would think that if you were parents of illegals (or are an illegal), you would wave the American flag for sympathy.
Here is a response from a fellow American that is right on:
I'm so sick of the politically correct term "illegal immigration" as that is meant to make it sound like American law is in the wrong. To me the word immigrant implies that one will live by the laws of their new home land, adopt and adapt to the prevailing culture, learn the language of their new country and so on. As a native born American I am disgusted by this so called immigration; but it is also a slap in the face to all those who come to this country legally. I have nothing against someone wanting to better themselves; but just do it legally.
If I choose to live in Egypt, I sure as heck better learn Arabic as I know they won't cater to me. If I choose to live in Laos, I better learn Laotian; but our Mexican buddies refuse to act like immigrants. They are invaders plain and simple. The invasion may be silent; but it's an invasion all the same.
The pro illegal invasion idiots claim Americans won't do the jobs the Mexicans will...BS! When I was a kid, Americans worked in construction, landscaping, food service, etc; but thanks to greedy and unscrupulous businesses and politicians allowing the Mexicans in, the wages have been depressed to the point where an American can't make a decent living in these industries.
When I watch the TV news at night, I call it the QBT (Quaint Brown Type) Crime Report because a large percentage of the crimes commited and reported by the TV news are by Mexicans. The percentage of crimes committed by Mexicans is disproportionately higher than their percentage of the overall population.
I just hope that Americans can put a stop to this nonsense before America goes the way of great civilizations before us and the USA becomes nothing more than an over-populated third world country. And if the USA is to become a third world rat-hole like Mexico, then I hope it happens long after I'm dead; because I sure don't want to live in the USA the politically correct pro illegal invasion idiots are striving to create.
I sure don't like it, but I don't know how you can stop it. The Fed. Gov't obviously can't stop illegals from getting in and certainly can't stop businesses from hiring them...
Bush knows these things are so, so he's trying to make the best of the situation and suck up to his corporate support base by providing an ocean of cheap labor... Plus, with the midterms coming up and lots of spanish speaking voters, it can't hurt.
Otherwise, I have to admit I am ignorant about this claim that there are jobs Americans won't do. I am not sure it gets to that most of the time, since once there is any kind of a pool of illegals around, the employers just suck them right up.
My sons both work in upscale restaurants in DC. Everybody you can't see, except the head and second level chefs, is from central america. They work long, they work hard, and they are reliable. If you were running this business, what would you rather have? If its a choice between a 22 yr. old American who sometimes doesn't show up or a 35 year old guy from El Salvador who never misses a day or is never late, what would you do?
Originally posted by Lmandrake I sure don't like it, but I don't know how you can stop it. The Fed. Gov't obviously can't stop illegals from getting in and certainly can't stop businesses from hiring them...
I think the Gov can stop it.
Get rid of Cash.
If everything was electronic, and you had to be documented to get accounts!!!.
I think the illegals are takingmoney from the US. The people protesting say they do good for us, but I have not heard this brought up yet, and I know this is the case. They work her for cheap AND TAKE THE MONEY BACK TO THEIT COUNTRY. So this hurts us.
If they put the money back into the system here it would be different, but they don't. They save the money to take back to where ever to live better there.
"I'm seriously going to pummel you until you purr like a bitch-kitten!!"
I can see both sides of this. I have some sympathy for illegal immigrants - they're just doing what any of us would do: getting a decent wage, and wages suck in Mexico, although they're getting better.
HOWEVER as the son of LEGAL immigrants, I also know that it's not all THAT hard (well, not until 9/11 anyway - I hear it's tougher now) to get a legal work visa and work towards becoming a legal citizen.
I'm Cuban and my entire family came over legally (not on a raft) - most before Castro, and some afterwards but by doing it the hard and legit way: usually by immigrating to a another country first and then applying for a temporary visa and then applying for citizenship. To be fair, though, the last relative came over 10 years ago and I know things have changed (last one out was a former VP of Coca-Cola in Cuba which got him thrown in prison for a decade when Castro took over).
Anyway, this isn't all that black and white. I feel your pain, Exec, but you can't blame the illegals entirely, nor (much as I'd like to) can you blame the government. You can't just stop it cold for several reasons, some political and some physical limitations:
- Realistically it's IMPOSSIBLE to completely secure such a large border - especially when people are so determined to get in. There just is not enough man power. I personally have no problem with civilian watchdog groups AS LONG AS THEY'RE SUPERVISED. Too many opportunities for abuse. But I see nothing wrong with a civilian making a citizen's arrest of an illegal crossing the border as long as there are no human rights violations.
- Realistically, a large part of the US economy would be adversely affected if you removed such a large labor force that we've come to rely on. You guys on the west coast don't see the bigger picture all the time. We have tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants her in Central Florida - believe it or not. The Citrus farmers here rely on them heavily. The company that built my rather expensive ($20K) fence around my 20 acre ranch also uses mostly Mexican labor - they're hard workers. The two "gringos" on the work gang were the laziest ^%#s I'd ever seen (one was the bosses son). Why? Americans just won't do the work. It's not that they don't pay decently because they do, and they even provide benefits. There are numerous other industries in the same position.
- It's naive to assume that all illegals are paid in cash. THAT is getting very difficult for a small business to do nowadays. It raises red flags. You'd be suprised how many illegals pay income tax (it's a smart thing to do to avoid being detected). They just use another relative's social security number (one who IS a legal resident) and there's an underground industry that sells the use of willing people's social security numbers. Although I admit not all pay, it is getting harder and harder to make a living off cash, but as a small business owner I can also tell you it's not hard to pay someone as a contractor (with a check not cash) and find ways to avoid the requirement of verifying citizenship, and banks don't give a rat's ass whether you're a citizen or not, plus there's a booming check cashing industry. Lot's of ways around this in the real world.
- Politically, it's a dead issue no matter how much the congess and senators yell about it. all this BS on the news is just posturing for the elections - NOTHING WILL BE DONE. Why? Because powerful lobbyist groups representing business groups all across the US that rely on migrant labor won't allow it (see above paragraph two above). Any politician that has an industry that relies on cheap labor as a constituent is not going to shoot himself in the foot come election time.
- The "loss of jobs" while real is probably not as bad as percieved. Those businesses that don't have to keep their factories in this country will only have even more incentive to outsource or move off-shore and in the end, there will be little net gain in jobs, even when they ARE jobs someone here would be willing to do. Businesses will always do what's best for their bottom line or their shareholders.
- Bush is not sucking Mexico's $#@!, trust me. I'm no GW fan as you all know but I'll defend him on this one. He's a politician from Texas and he KNOWS what the real business world is all about (or at least his advisors do). Just like Bush Sr. and Clinton, Bush realises that the best way to "fix" the illigal immigration issue is a very long term economic and social solution: wages in Mexico (and ideally all through Central and South America) need to be brought in line with our wages. That means the standard of living needs to be improved. This IS happening. Except for a few smaller countries, the economies of Latin America have been improving in the past 2 decades. Even Mexico - while still way behind - is improving. I know lots of IT people that have moved to Mexico and Latin America because of good job opportunities as these countries join the computer age (banking, infrastructure, etc). All you have to do is learn to live without a few things we take for granted - like reasonably honest cops...
What this administration needs to do is force Mexico to adopt more economic and social reforms in exchange for any concessions we give them. Moreover we need to insist that Mexico improve it's situation in regards to government corruption (at both the upper and lower levels). Anyone who's ever lived in Mexico will tell you you can't get JACK done without greasing someone's palm: be it the cops, the mayor, or the garbage man. Next time you think that customer service sucks in this country, try living south of the border.
I'm totally serious when I say this: GW invaded the wrong country. We should have invaded Mexico. Logistics are easier, the supply lines are shorter, there would have been little loss of live on both sides, there wouldn't be any insurrgents to speak of (except drug dealers maybe) and we would have gotten the same bad press in the International world with a far greater return. Mexico potentially has FAR larger oil reserves than Iraq and by making it a state we'd bring the standard of living in line with ours.
That's my opinion...
WARNING: The previous statement is My Opinion. My Opinion is considered by some to be "full of hot air". In a small percentage of cases My Opinion has been known to cause mild side effects such as difficulty breathing, loss of appetite and stroke. In a very small percentage of men (less than 3 percent), My Opinion has been shown in the laboratory to cause loss of sex drive and hair loss. Pregnant women should avoid My Opinion because of the risk of a certain type of birth defect. Remember My Opinion is not a cure, but if used regularly it can alleviate most of the symptoms...
Christians warn us about the anti-christ for 2,000 years, and when he shows up, they buy a bible from him.
Thanks for your comments FP, and I do agree with your assertion about invading Mexico (my comments are at the end also on this).
Both my mom and dad are from Costa Rica. They came the legal route in the late 40's early 50's. My grandfather on my dad's side is from Texas though. He moved to Costa Rica to start a business, and my dad always wanted to come to the states. If you were to trace back, on my dad side, they came from Scotland. On my mom's side, from Spain.
The problem that I have with the illegal wave is the pandering from both parties to this group just to get votes. These idiot politicians can't see what all this illegal wave has done to this country. I see it every day at work, and at school (my wife is a elementary school teacher). We spend too much time trying to educate illiterate kids from Mexico that can't even understand their own native language of Spanish. This is a huge burden on the American kid going to school.
Go to any Hospital, and it's full of illegals getting free medical care, while citizens have to wait. I know what it's like in the Hospital, when I had to take family members there for emergency treatment. Without controlled immigration, the illegal aliens are putting huge pressures on our infrastructure to keep up, which increase everyone's taxes and patience.
What ever happened to learning English for these Mexicans? I look at the Asians that come over, and they embrace our culture and adapt. The Mexicans do not. They want everyone to speak Spanish. Makes me mad to see forms in both Spanish and English. This is bull****! All previous immigrants that came to the US were not like this, and did not expect the government to give them handouts.
I agree with the fellows comments that the US will be a third world country unless we begin to control the masses coming here. Remember, the masses coming over here are not educated! Hopefully, I will have passed on before that time comes, but I feel sorry for my kids who will have to live with the stupid decisions made by Washington hacks. We are the only country in the world that accepts massive amounts of illegal immigrants. There is reason for "controlled immigration".
As for your comment on invading Mexico: Why can't these people revolt against their own government? If they can't do it, then I agree with you that we should invade and take it over Mexico.
Originally posted by Executioner What ever happened to learning English for these Mexicans? I look at the Asians that come over, and they embrace our culture and adapt. The Mexicans do not. They want everyone to speak Spanish. Makes me mad to see forms in both Spanish and English. This is bull****! All previous immigrants that came to the US were not like this, and did not expect the government to give them handouts.
Yeah, that bothers me alot as well.
You want to be here, learn english!
"I'm seriously going to pummel you until you purr like a bitch-kitten!!"
Having lived in Miami for 22 years it annoyed the hell out of me that so many Cuban immigrants (legal and illegal) don't bother learning the language. I'm not just talking recent immigrants which may not have had the time - I know people who've lived here DECADES that barely speak English. Then the taxpayers have to foot the bill for manuals, forms, etc. in Spanish. That's moronic.
You want to come here and work, I really have no problem with it, but learn the language.
If I moved to Mexico or some other Latin American country, you can bet your ass that there wouldn't be any forms or manuals in English for my benefit.
My parents always felt the same way. My father went so far as to raise us to speak English in the house and chastised my mother when she spoke to us in Spanish (to this day when I talk to my mother on the phoe she speaks in Spanish and I speak English - it's hilarious).
Christians warn us about the anti-christ for 2,000 years, and when he shows up, they buy a bible from him.
Do you uys realize what it would cost us if we invaded Mexico ? Poverty is at a different level. 95% of the population is below poverty level. Hell, tortilla prices are regulated by the government. Right now it's at 6 pesos or $0.60 american and 3/4 of the population can't afford that.
Locking down the borders are the only answer. totalyy locking them down. but there is no way to do that. I have sat outside my in-laws porch and have seen the border patrol choppers fly overhead spotting illegals. I can tell you more than anyone here that illegal immigration just isn't about taking jobs.
they also take;
School seats - by law here in Texas, schools cannot turn down any child from education, unless he doesn't have shots. I pick up my children from school, and 50% of the vehicles have mexico plates.
food stamps - and they think they are entitled to it and don't have to find a job. some people have been on them for 20+ years.
medicaid/medicare - all they have to do is go sign up for it, and they get it.
heck, they can't even drive. they run thru red lights, stop signs, and have no car insurance. the drunk driving rate here is atrocious.
Now, I know there are some who are hard workers, but 95% of them are looking for a handout.
If you must know, I live 5 minutes drive from the border.
a lot of interesting points here. My ancestors are from Ireland and Prussia and got on the boat in the mid 1800s for the usual reasons. Where I live is still very homogenous - 90%+ white though that is changing slowly. Historically we had migrant workers around here for the orchards, but more and more of the orchards are being closed down by Ryan homes and friends.
As a couple of people have pointed out, closing the borders would be a solution but it ain't gonna happen. Historically in this country if there is something that is outside the mainstream we figure out how to co-opt and tax it. Which makes it mainstream.
If I was living in a third world country, I would be spending 99% of my time trying to figure a way out. The cruise ship I was on was very interesting, because it was crewed (hotel staff anyway) by people from a lot of different countries. I was talking with the guy who did the air-brush tattoos - he was from Romania, obviously had a least a superior high school education if not more, spoke fluent english, presumably romanian and other languages, and he was working on the ship with a ship "green card" which is a limited version of the regular one. He was asking me if I had any ideas about him getting a regular green card so he could join his girlfriend in Miami (who had a green card). Hw wanted to go into the hotel business I think. In the meantime he was performing basically a circus job giving people air-brush tatoos while he was looking for an angle.
If we had a real guest worker program and taxed it specially to recover costs and got serious about enforcing the employment laws, we might be able to control things a little better. Of course employers want to hire the most reliable productive people they can, and obviously they are not going to choose a lazy legal over a conscientious illegal who has some kind of paperwork which kinda sorta shows they are ok. Around here the unemplyoment rate is so low 2-3% that everyone who wants a job has one. Mcdonalds is hiring 15 year olds and they still can't stay staffed with people who show up and can make change for a dollar. Just a few thoughts
I was watching Bill Maher last night and some Republican Senator was saying that the entire "Americans won't do menial work" concept is bogus. That you should have no problem finding an "American" (dare I say "White"?) nanny or caregiver or gardener or whatever if you pay enough.
Well the Senator should come to Miami. My mother in law has full time nursing care at home (the family has the money for it and her husband made it clear before he died that he doesn't want her in a home - she has Alzhiemers).
We have a wonderful staff of 5 nurses assistants that rotate through so there's always 2 girls there (my mother in law is nearly an invalid at this point).
All these nursing assistants are either Jamaican or Haitian on work permits (we're FAIRLY sure they're all legal since the nursing service is supposed to check their backgrounds but who really knows?). Makes it hard to understand them sometimes, but they're all good girls that take good care of her. It was hard finding them - we went through a lot of them that were provided through a service until we settled on the five we have, and we pay them very well so they'll stay long term.
Now my in-laws and their family aren't exactly racist but trust me they'd have much preferred (and would happily have paid extra) for WHITE AMERICAN nursing assistants. You know what? They don't exist. American girls do NOT want to wipe poop from an 85 year old woman's butt everyday. If they're in the nursing business they go to work as nursing assistants in some rich doctor's office where all they have to do is put a thermometer in your mouth and take your pulse. No diaper changing.
Go to any hospital in Miami and you will NOT see WHITE AMERICAN NURSES. You won't even see many Latin American nurses. They're almost entirely Jamaican and Haitian. Jamaica is like the number one source of nurses and nursing assistants in the south east now. I'm sure a LARGE number of them are illegals.
Close the borders tight and you'd probably have to shut down half the hospitals.
I also truly believe that the loss of taxes is really a crock. A large number pay income tax (usually by using someone else's social) because it's getting very hard to bypass that (sure a gardener can get paid under the table but someone in a professional trade or working in a factory can't).
More importantly they ALL pay state and excise taxes (sales tax, gas tax, service taxes, etc - no avoiding that) which the state uses to provide most of their social services. Not to mention that immigrants are probably the largest portion of the population that pisses money away on lotto (I call that a tax on ignorance, but that's another rant for another day).
The REAL money drain is the very poor illegals who come here and work totally under the table and then drain resources because they live in a gray middle ground, but that's fewer than you might think. I'd like to see how that population number compares to the number of homeless Americans also living under the table.
Christians warn us about the anti-christ for 2,000 years, and when he shows up, they buy a bible from him.
