I almost punched my TV listening th Hillery

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:03 pm

Free health care for all. I mean how stupid can you be. It has done so great in other countries...and it wont effect taxes at all. She is just an idiot.

Greg

RubberDuckie · Post by **RubberDuckie** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:09 pm

Since when is it the Governments responsibility to keep individuals healthy.

This place is getting weard

Err · Post by **Err** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:43 pm

RubberDuckie wrote:Since when is it the Governments responsibility to keep individuals healthy.

This place is getting weird

It's more about control and power than wanting to keep people healthy. Our government is moving toward wanting to be in every aspect of our lives.

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:08 am

It's called socialism and it sucks.

renovation · Post by **renovation** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:21 am

all it do is make you wait ten weeks to have a hang nail looked at and 5 more weeks to have it removed !

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:04 am

For those here who are getting older and know how costly our present health care system is (a very big deal really, VERY costly too), you know there are big problems now that can only get worse. Health care costs are out of hand.

Other countries have government paid health care BUT it DOES come with a cost. I don't know about Canada but I know that in Europe, their percentage of income taxation is about twice as high as what most of us pay now.

If it ever does happen here, it won't be "free" by any means.

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:31 pm

yea, taxes are crazy in all of the countries that offer free healthcare, except Dubi. But that will change too.

Not only are taxes high, but the service sucks. Thats what I want. I havent been to a doctor in 10+ years...I always like paying for stuff I dont need or use.

Greg

Executioner · Post by **Executioner** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:58 pm

One of the reasons health care costs are so high are the people that go to the doctor for anything including the common cold. Also, you have illegals that go to hospitals since they know they have to provide medical care. The costs are then passed on to people with insurance. Probably explains why an aspirin costs $50 in a hospital.

NubyCanuby_OFC · Post by **NubyCanuby_OFC** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:25 pm

The basic medical coverage is about $100 per month for a family where I live. Income taxes in Canada are about the same as the USA. For medical costs not covered the deductible is about 3% of your family income if it is over $30,000. 70% of costs are covered up to 4% of your income and all costs are covered after that. The deductibles are lower for incomes under $30,000. Since most people don't go to the doctor every month the monthly premiums help to fund the medical plan. Health coverage is still the biggest expense for government but at least everybody has coverage.
It's nice knowing that I won't go bankrupt if I have a major problem like a heart attack and I won't die of cancer because I can't afford the chemotherapy treatments. You can always buy extended coverage if you don't want to risk the deductibles but it is expensive if your employer doesn't provide it. Wait times are longer but there are no wait times for urgent surgeries. There are ways of getting around it if you want to pay the money.

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:07 pm

I think you are misinformed as most the stuff you mention are inaccurate. Canadian Total taxes are far higher then USA. Actually Most people dont go to the doctor for just anything they go only when they need to, the problem is they usually put it off too long. many people even in Canada are unable to get the surgury or other things even if it is critical. There are professionals that have created an industry that gets people with life threating anythings to the USA to get them taken care of so they can get it taken care of prior to DEATH.

I think I will stick with what we have currently.

Greg

TheSovereign · Post by **TheSovereign** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:01 pm

i have no insurance. i went the emergency room. the cost was 1800 bux. i pay 50 dollars a month and the hospital cant touch me for the money. the health care system is not broken. medicare covers drugs. stop complaining

NubyCanuby_OFC · Post by **NubyCanuby_OFC** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:38 am

What make you think Canadian taxes are higher Nexus_7? I picked a specific annual income and looked up the income tax charts where I live and where my friend in Mississippi lives. They were about the same. They both use sliding scales so you have to pick a dollar value and add up the state and federal taxes. I downloaded the income tax forms and did the calculations. You have to look at the total picture. Things like income tax, estate taxes, state sales tax, property taxes. They vary depending on where you live but I find they seem to balance out when it's all said and done.
I reported on my medical costs from the medical services plan site along with the wait times. An individual who needs emergency surgery does not go on a waitlist; they receive treatment without delay. Some non essential surgeries have wait times of a few months and some are days. It depends on the hospital and the surgeon. It definitely can be improved.
The news doesn't report when people get their urgent surgeries done on time, they report when there is a screw up. If surgeries are deemed life threatening they have priority and people don't die waiting for them.
My point is it's nice to have a cap on the total costs. If I need a bypass operation it's not going to cost me $50,000. Since I'm paying monthly I'll go to the doctor if I think I have a problem before it gets serious because I'm paying monthly. If I had to pay a large user fee each time I would put it off. I don't go to the doctor just for the fun of it but it's nice to know I can go and it won't cost me an arm and a leg. What happens if TheSovereign has a bypass operation with no insurance? Does he owe $50,000 in $50 a month installments. What happens to people who don't qualify for medicaid and can't afford individual health insurance?
While I don't agree with Hillary Clinton I do think the medical plans in all countries should be constantly monitored and looked at for ways to improve.
Don't believe everything our politicians tell us. They are the ones that created the U.S. 9 Trillion dollar debt and the Canadian 733 billion dollar debt.

Lmandrake · Post by **Lmandrake** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:42 pm

Since I am sitting in front of a stack of medical bills, I thought I would chime in here.

There seem to be two fields in America governed by a spare no expense policy: health care and defense. Having become very intimate with health care recently, I can tell you it is absolutely unbelievable. I was recently hospitalized for the end of September to the middle of October. The Pharmacy charges - not the total bill - were over $62,000.00. If I were to guess, my health carrier paid out a little under 300 grand for me last year. I am exceedingly fortunate, as I have great health insurance and have reasonable co-pays and deductibles.

There are a lot of sick people out there - particularly as the boomers age - and this is going to be a huge problem because the system is premised entirely on giving the patient all the best care with an expectation that there is insurance money to pay. Therefore, just like the Pentagon may pay $700 for a toilet seat, a little rubber squeeze ball for strengthening the fingers gets billed at $26.

Although I am a well known "Dumbocrat" here, I am not advocating national health insurance since I don't have a position yet. Personally, I would have to crazy to embrace it because I am very lucky to have the coverage I do. But I can see that health care costs are soaring and the number of seriously ill potential claimants are going to go up. A lot of middle class citizens are going to feel the squeeze in one way or another. And, there are already a lot more health care cost related bankruptcies than there used to be.

I cringe at the thought of the amount of fraud there would be in such a system here. Medicaid and Medicare fraud is rampant and expensive to prosecute as federal crimes. Although my insurance co. sometimes reminds me of the IRS, the feds could probably administer the system.

Yes, national health care would apply to the poor and the uninsured. However, the system is carrying a lot of those people now. They just don't pay and have no house or anything to lose if they don't. To the extent that the foregoing is true, anyone with insurance or using health care now is already paying a "tax" in increased costs needed to cover for the deadbeats.

EvilHorace · Post by **EvilHorace** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:19 pm

Every year the costs of health care keep going up and everyones insurance rates go up to compensate that. Every year I go to a company health insurance meeting to hear how our premiums are going up, deductible's increasing and out of pocket costs will also increase. Last year, I paid over $6K for premiums alone, not to mention all the out of pocket expenses like co-pays, etc.
What we're all paying is getting to be a bigger chunk every year. I think that eventually, the government will have to become involved in order to (at least) try controlling costs.
I've talked to many older people who've either had or know others who's out of pocket medical expenses wiped out their life savings and then some.
I don't know if national health care is a good thing or not but something has to be done.