is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

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reno
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is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby reno » Sun May 31, 2020 11:28 am

back in the 60s it was Black Power. .
today its Black Live Matter .
to me its just a play on words .
if Im wrong please explain .

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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby FlyingPenguin » Sun May 31, 2020 11:48 am

Okay, I'll try. IMO as a white Hispanic.

Black Power was a political slogan in the 60s, behind the the demands of political activists for racial equality. At that time, as a black person, you could not vote in many southern states, and if you could vote you were often threatened with violence openly to prevent you from or influencing your vote, blacks could not legally own businesses in some states and cities, public lynching's occurred and were often not investigated. In many parts of the South, blacks could not use white bathrooms, drinking fountains, or parks. It was legal for businesses to refuse to serve you if you were black (or Hispanic, or Asian for that matter).

Black Lives Matters is a slogan used today mainly by political activists to protest, specifically, the killing of black men & women by police in situations that seem to be unwarranted.

While there was certainly unlawful police killings of blacks in the 60s, that wasn't everything Black Power was about. Black power was more about civil rights in general.

Granted there's a civil rights element to Black Lives Matter, but the primary message is, I feel, being treated equally by the legal system.

I'm not excusing rioting, and the asshole rioters, sadly, always come out of the woodwork after the peaceful protestors go home. But I don't think anyone can watch that video of the cop with his knee on the guy's throat without understanding why people are angry. It doesn't justify rioting, but it sure as hell does makes me want to go out and protest peacefully.
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby FlyingPenguin » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:41 am

Lot's of conversations about race relations with friends and family the past week, and the thing that drives me crazy is how some people think that people of color (and I'll include Hispanics in here from personal experience) think there's little to no racial bias in our society.

For those of us who don't have dark or brown skin, we have little idea of what a challenge it can be just driving to work in certain cities. I'm Cuban, but I don't look like it - people assume my ancestry is white european (they're often shocked to find out I'm Hispanic), meanwhile my brother could pass for Mexican, and was often hassled for being Mexican when he lived in the panhandle (Mexicans take a lot of crap in Central and North Florida).

When I used to manage technicians in Miami, I would get calls all the time from cops verifying that one of my Black techs actually worked for me and hadn't stolen the vehicle. I kid you not, this happened A LOT. I NEVER got a call like that about my white techs. Mostly they'd get pulled over for a legit stop like a broken taillight, but sometimes they were stopped, as far as I could tell, for 'driving while being black'. It happened often enough that for service calls in certain neighborhoods, I'd send a white tech out to avoid hassles.

And yeah, I've had situations where Black techs have had people call cops on them while they're parked in their van on the side of the road doing paperwork, for 'looking suspicious' and again, I'd get a call from a cop confirming that he really is my tech, despite him carrying company ID (we didn't wear uniforms, just polo shirts and slacks). I can't remember this happening to any of my white techs.

Now this was in the 90's, but talking to black friends of mine who still live in S. Florida, nothing's changed except the neighborhoods.

Around here, in Lilly white Lady Lake, it's Mexicans who get hassled a lot. If you look Mexican, and you're driving a truck, you're likely going to get pulled over for something. Now we do have Black people here in Lady Lake, but very few live in The Villages - the big 50,000+ population retirement community here. If you're black and live near the Villages, you're likely a business professional, or in the medical field, because rent and home prices here are high. If you're black and work for a service company, you probably live in Leesburg or Ocala and commute, and those places are like any big town or city.

Had an interesting situation several years ago when we had full time caregivers staying with my mother inlaw at a house we owned in The Villages. Most of the caregivers were Black (lot's of Jamiacan caregivers around here) and the neighbors started complaining to the police that they thought something suspicious was happening at the house. The cops were cool, and checked things out, but the neighbors kept calling.

There were two girls on during the day, one at night, and different girls rotating every few days. The neighbors never saw my mother inlaw because when we moved her there, she was already bed ridden. All they saw were these black women coming in and out, and the older ones didn't wear scrubs. Occasionally my Wife or I would come by, but the neighbors mostly noticed the care givers.

I eventually got a call from a cop who lived in the neighborhood who told me that the neighbors were all concerned there was some kind of drug lab or something going on in there, and that he'd assured them everything was okay, but he suggested I talk to the neighbors. So in the end the Wife and I threw a block party and introduced the neighbors to my mother inlaw, and all the caregivers, and that quieted things down.

I swear, the cop took me aside and said that while people in the neighborhood were certainly used to black caregivers in a retirement area like The Villages, they just weren't used to someone who could afford full time care, so seeing that many black people coming and going were making them suspicious.

Would that have been an issue if the girls were white?
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Pugsley » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:41 am

All I have to say about all that is stereotypes exist for a reason.

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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Losbot » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:31 pm

FlyingPenguin wrote:Lot's of conversations about race relations with friends and family the past week, and the thing that drives me crazy is how some people think that people of color (and I'll include Hispanics in here from personal experience) think there's little to no racial bias in our society.


Probably because we do keep hearing from Blacks that there's less racism towards them than before. Stats keep showing that things are much better than before and the biggest problem for the Black community is their own. Over 90% of the deaths are from their own community. Police kill more Whites than Blacks, last time I checked. Welfare also contributed toward destroying the Black community by breaking up families, so there were no father figures in the home. A woman couldn't get a check if she were married, so we encouraged people to not get married but still have kids because we put a monthly value on them.

Having said that, I'm going to just say that I'm tired of racism......the racism and BS from BLM. They only give a damn about the SMALL percentage of Black lives that are killed by Whites or cops. They apparently don't give a damn about the Blacks killed regularly/nightly by Blacks. Why is that? Didn't THOSE Black lives matter at all to them or is it just the ones to push their agenda, which according to their website, is to abolish the "White supremacy". I'm also tired of seeing posts that claim if you respond with "All Lives Matter" then you are racist. Everyone's a racist in their eyes.

What happened 200yrs ago is NOT my fault and why should I have to pay for something that not even my parents were a part of? Is there racism, yes. Will it ever disappear? I doubt it because it's being taught by both sides. There are Blacks who are racist, just like there are non-Blacks who are racist. If we keep teaching this shit to our kids, it'll never change.

Some might disagree with me and that's fine. Some of us still believe in personal accountability. I make every effort to judge people on their actions and have a very diverse group of friends because I don't give a shit what you are. What I care about is how you treat me and others.

Sorry for ranting. Just tired of all the ridiculousness lately going on. People are acting all stupid.

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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby darcy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:17 pm

Losbot wrote:
FlyingPenguin wrote:Lot's of conversations about race relations with friends and family the past week, and the thing that drives me crazy is how some people think that people of color (and I'll include Hispanics in here from personal experience) think there's little to no racial bias in our society.


Probably because we do keep hearing from Blacks that there's less racism towards them than before. Stats keep showing that things are much better than before and the biggest problem for the Black community is their own. Over 90% of the deaths are from their own community. Police kill more Whites than Blacks, last time I checked. Welfare also contributed toward destroying the Black community by breaking up families, so there were no father figures in the home. A woman couldn't get a check if she were married, so we encouraged people to not get married but still have kids because we put a monthly value on them.

Having said that, I'm going to just say that I'm tired of racism......the racism and BS from BLM. They only give a damn about the SMALL percentage of Black lives that are killed by Whites or cops. They apparently don't give a damn about the Blacks killed regularly/nightly by Blacks. Why is that? Didn't THOSE Black lives matter at all to them or is it just the ones to push their agenda, which according to their website, is to abolish the "White supremacy". I'm also tired of seeing posts that claim if you respond with "All Lives Matter" then you are racist. Everyone's a racist in their eyes.

What happened 200yrs ago is NOT my fault and why should I have to pay for something that not even my parents were a part of? Is there racism, yes. Will it ever disappear? I doubt it because it's being taught by both sides. There are Blacks who are racist, just like there are non-Blacks who are racist. If we keep teaching this shit to our kids, it'll never change.

Some might disagree with me and that's fine. Some of us still believe in personal accountability. I make every effort to judge people on their actions and have a very diverse group of friends because I don't give a shit what you are. What I care about is how you treat me and others.

Sorry for ranting. Just tired of all the ridiculousness lately going on. People are acting all stupid.



I don't know the "stats" , but I feel the same.

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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Losbot » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:07 pm

The biggest problem (on both sides) these days is that most of the people out there protesting or who are complaining refuse to hear facts. They don't care to acknowledge any of it and as soon as you disagree with them, you're labeled whatever is convenient. I've been called a racist, a misogynist, etc.... People don't care to have a legitimate discussion and there's a lack of respect for all people too.

Maybe the younger ones have spent their lives being catered to and given everything they want instead of being challenged or disciplined when younger so there's this sense of entitlement to whatever they want. I don't know but it's getting crazier out there and I don't think the "defund police" supporters realize what they're asking for.
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby reno » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:01 pm

Losbot wrote:The biggest problem (on both sides) these days is that most of the people out there protesting or who are complaining refuse to hear facts. They don't care to acknowledge any of it and as soon as you disagree with them, you're labeled whatever is convenient. I've been called a racist, a misogynist, etc.... People don't care to have a legitimate discussion and there's a lack of respect for all people too.

Maybe the younger ones have spent their lives being catered to and given everything they want instead of being challenged or disciplined when younger so there's this sense of entitlement to whatever they want. I don't know but it's getting crazier out there and I don't think the "defund police" supporters realize what they're asking for.

i have to agree with this fully . I know its sure putting a strain on are family . everyone not fighting but sure not talking .its like you know if you disagree your black listed . some try like hell to push there view's but your are all wrong.

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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Losbot » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:39 pm

reno wrote:i have to agree with this fully . I know its sure putting a strain on are family . everyone not fighting but sure not talking .its like you know if you disagree your black listed . some try like hell to push there view's but your are all wrong.


It sucks. Shouldn't be this way. I just got into an argument 2 days ago with my sister-in-law who JUST finished college and she told me she's 100% supportive of BLM. I told her that I believe all lives matter & that no particular race or color is more important than another. Her first response was "Oh, FU! just admit you're a racist!".

I laughed and I replied "Me? Racist? GTFO! I grew up in Carol City. We were 1 of maybe 3 non-Black families in the entire area and all I had were Black friends. I've dated girls of just about every race and color, including Black. I moved to New Orleans, where it was 65% Black in the 90s and loved living there. You serious?" I wanted to smack her. She's the youngest & one of those that the parents never said no to. She could never do anything wrong in their eyes. SMH

Things are getting tense everywhere.
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby FlyingPenguin » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:44 pm

I'm not going to talk much more about this since we all have our positions firmly grounded. But I will make this point:

The slogan "Black Lives Matters" is not about one race or color being more important than others. It's a rallying cry that people of color are not being treated fairly. BLM, the organization is something else, and I'm not going to speak for them. And yes there's more militant blacks that are just angry at everything. I get that.

When I say Black lives matter, it's not meant as a competition. It's NOT about one race being more important than others. Of course all lives matter. Of course Blue Lives Matter. But Black lives matter is a declaration that some of us believe that there's a substantial number of people who DO NOT believe that Black lives are of an equal value with whites. Be it socially or legally.

If you don't believe that, it doesn't make you a bigot in my book, and you're entitled to your opinion. I do feel you're naive - and that's my opinion.

But I'll remind you that it's pretty damn easy to say there's no racial bias in this country when you're lily white, and no cop ever pulls you over for "not looking like you live around here".

'nuff said.
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Losbot » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:12 am

FlyingPenguin wrote:But I'll remind you that it's pretty damn easy to say there's no racial bias in this country when you're lily white, and no cop ever pulls you over for "not looking like you live around here".


Agreed but there's a lot of Blacks that keep saying the racial bias that we hear about is not really supported by the statistics. Statistically, more Whites are killed by cops. Blacks are killed 10 times more often by Blacks than Whites. I'm just stating what the data shows so would you agree that it seems the "racial bias" might be exaggerated by extremists and unfortunately many others believe what those people are claiming? I don't doubt there's racist people in the world but I feel that most people are not racist and just want to live peacefully but the racism is being exaggerated to some extent because events are being cherry-picked to make it look like nothing ever happens to non-Blacks.

The whole situation just sucks. Maybe turning off all social media and the news, Globally for like a month would help. Might at least get some people out of the house. :)
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby FlyingPenguin » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:51 am

I keep hearing that on news interviews from people who have never taken statistical analysis in college. Trouble is that's not how it's calculated:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do-po ... ck-people/

Any “analysis” of police killings will of course show that in absolute numbers, more white people are killed in police shootings than black people, because (non-Hispanic) whites comprise a roughly five times greater share of the U.S. population (62% vs. 13%). So any “analysis” that is based on nothing more than absolute numbers and does not take demographics into account is inaccurate and misleading...

...According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
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Re: is there any real difference from the 60's to day ?

Postby Losbot » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:33 am

I think that's all in how you want to present the data. Plus Snopes can be biased for some things. They'll sugarcoat certain articles.

Plus I prefer to just look at the FBI's data on homicides, based on race. It's like 230 White killing Black versus 2600 Black killing Black.
That's a problem that I don't see BLM giving a damn about. They only care about the smaller number of White on Black. More so if it's a cop.

Tired of the hypocrisy and BS.
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