Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

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Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Fri May 15, 2020 11:02 am

I'm going to raise holy hell on Steam forums about this. I don't play multiplayer. It's ridiculous this crap has to run even while playing single player.

As long as you don't run the game since the update yesterday, it won't be installed, and you can uninstall it and not run the game until, hopefully, they give us a way to disable this in single player.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/ ... al_denuvo/
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Err » Fri May 15, 2020 11:11 am

If Bethesda is going to allow this on their games, I'll simply avoid them in the future. It's a shame because Starfield looked promising and I'm always up for another Elder Scrolls game.

I wonder if Fallout 76 players are getting Denuvo with their updates?

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Fri May 15, 2020 1:47 pm

I think it's a crappy thing to do 2 months after the game is released, as I never would have bought the game if I knew this up front. I work REAL hard to keep my gaming system very clean and stable. A kernel driver that no one has vetted is not something I want in my PC. Even if I trust Denuvo not to be up to no good, I have no idea how well written their driver is, how secure it is, what exactly it's doing, and it's running under full admin privileges.
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Err » Fri May 15, 2020 3:09 pm

What an arrogant [insert word for sticking a needle in your finger]!

But Greshishchev tells Ars such fear is misplaced. Denuvo Anti-Cheat is "designed to be no different than Nvidia's graphic drivers or Steam's Client Service," he said. "Unlike anti-cheats of the past, there are no filesystem hooks, no requirement to start with the OS, no annoying tray icons or splash screens."

"It's human nature to have a fear of the unknown, and no amount of technical claims by us could address that. Trust is built up over time, and we think that when Denuvo Anti-Cheat bans a player in your favorite game, we will gain your trust."


https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/05/doom-eternal-anti-cheat-kernel-driver-is-safer-than-others-denuvo-says/

I think that those who bought this game for PC deserve a refund. If this is the how future PC AAA games are going to be handled, I'm fine with indie titles and my backlog.

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Fri May 15, 2020 3:14 pm

It's just stupid that this is even enabled when playing single player, which is how most people play this game. It IS a single player game, and they just included a crappy battlemode multiplayer option which most people don't care about.

I understand that speedrunners are working on a way to either bypass it or roll it back to the previous version.
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Losbot » Fri May 15, 2020 5:46 pm

Err wrote:What an arrogant [insert word for sticking a needle in your finger]!

"It's human nature to have a fear of the unknown, and no amount of technical claims by us could address that. Trust is built up over time, and we think that when Denuvo Anti-Cheat bans a player in your favorite game, we will gain your trust."



And I'm choosing to BAN DAC, because I trust myself more. ;)
Screw them. I was considering it but now they can kiss my arse!
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Fri May 15, 2020 6:15 pm

There's enough howling going on that I hope they allow us to disable this for single player. Curiously, the update notes explicitly say you can disable it for single player, but it doesn't work. If you uninstall Denuvo anti-cheat, it re-installs it next time you launch the game. If you somehow block it from installing, the game won't run. MAYBE they screwed up.

Just allowing it to be disabled and never install or run unless you play a multiplayer game would settle the whole thing.

Failing that, I'm sure smart people will figure out a work around.
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Executioner » Tue May 19, 2020 10:15 am


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Denuvo Anti-Cheat being removed!

Postby FlyingPenguin » Wed May 20, 2020 8:57 pm

Yeah!

In a post on reddit, id Software announces they are backtracking on the recent addition of Denuvo Anti-Cheat to DOOM Eternal in update 1 for the first-person shooter sequel. This move met with controversy, so executive producer Marty Stratton explains why they added it and why they are reversing the decision in a patch they hope to release within a week. He notes that some of the performance issues users are seeing are not actually related to Denuvo, but to other bugs that they are also addressing:

Despite our best intentions, feedback from players has made it clear that we must re-evaluate our approach to anti-cheat integration. With that, we will be removing the anti-cheat technology from the game in our next PC update. As we examine any future of anti-cheat in DOOM Eternal, at a minimum we must consider giving campaign-only players the ability to play without anti-cheat software installed, as well as ensure the overall timing of any anti-cheat integration better aligns with player expectations around clear initiatives – like ranked or competitive play – where demand for anti-cheat is far greater.

It is important to note that our decision to include anti-cheat was guided by nothing other than the factors and goals I’ve outlined above – all driven by our team at id Software. I have seen speculation online that Bethesda (our parent company and publisher) is forcing these or other decisions on us, and it’s simply untrue. It’s also worth noting that our decision to remove the anti-cheat software is not based on the quality of the Denuvo Anti-Cheat solution. Many have unfortunately related the performance and stability issues introduced in Update 1 to the introduction of anti-cheat. They are not related.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/ ... anticheat/
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Pugsley » Wed May 20, 2020 9:20 pm

You know back in the day when the community ran the dedicated servers you didn't have as much an issue with cheaters because they would get banned. The community would not put up with it and would make sure you could not come back.

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Executioner » Wed May 20, 2020 10:18 pm

Isn't there some way to keep track of cheating players and perma banned them (i.e. Steam)? One of the major reasons I quit playing internet network games even though I still play TF2 on line. I see cheaters there, especially the ones playing sniper. They play with an auto aiming bot. Once a few players see it, they usually leave before being banned. There has to be a better solution instead of using software.

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Err » Fri May 22, 2020 11:55 am

When I used to help moderate a MOH:AA server, we wouldn't simply kick a cheater. We had a set of tools that allowed us to annoy them until they quit. One of my favorites was to set the player on fire to keep killing them.

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby Err » Wed May 27, 2020 12:12 pm

It turns out Denuvo Anti-Piracy was causing performance issues too: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/denuvo-anti-cheat-was-not-the-cause-of-doom-eternal-issues.html

Stratton needs to step down from id Software. He's a PR nightmare.

“It is important to note that our decision to include anti-cheat was guided by nothing other than the factors and goals I’ve outlined above – all driven by our team at id Software. I have seen speculation online that Bethesda (our parent company and publisher) is forcing these or other decisions on us, and it’s simply untrue. It’s also worth noting that our decision to remove the anti-cheat software is not based on the quality of the Denuvo Anti-Cheat solution. Many have unfortunately related the performance and stability issues introduced in Update 1 to the introduction of anti-cheat. They are not related.

Through our investigation, we discovered and have fixed several crashes in our code related to customizable skins. We were also able to identify and fix a number of other memory-related crashes that should improve overall stability for players. All of these fixes will be in our next PC update. I’d like to note that some of these issues were very difficult to reproduce and we want to thank a number of our community members who worked directly with our engineers to identify and help reproduce these issues.

Finally, we believe the performance issues some players have experienced on PC are based on a code change we made around VRAM allocation. We have reverted this change in our next update and expect the game to perform as it did at launch.”

Stratton also said that Bethesda had nothing to do with the decision, but id Software. The motivation behind the implementation of the Denuvo anti-cheat was to protect the Battlemode and prevent cheats during campaign mode during Invasion mode..

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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Wed May 27, 2020 12:46 pm

I can live with the Denuvo DRM - it's in a lot of games, but thankfully most publishers remove it after a few months since all it really does is buy them a window during initial sales where people will choose to buy it instead of waiting for a warez version. They just removed it from Metro Exodus, for example.

I just find the anti-cheat feature ridiculous in a game that is mainly single player, and if I never play multiplayer then I want it off - one less bit of trash running in the background.

On that front, there was a tech news item I read this morning that the patch to fix the problems, and remove anti-cheat is finished they just haven't pushed it out yet. I will not be firing up the game until I see the update in the Steam downloader.
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Re: Why You Should Remove DOOM Eternal (Denuvo Anti-Cheat) from your PC Immediately

Postby FlyingPenguin » Thu May 28, 2020 12:32 am

Patch is available now on Steam:

DOOM Eternal Update 1.1 (PC Only) is now live, and features fixes several crashes associated with customizable skins, as well as memory-related crashes and removes Denuvo Anti Cheat integration.

Removed Denuvo Anti-Cheat integration
Use Windows add/remove programs to uninstall Denuvo Anti-Cheat
Fixes
Fixed several crashes associated with customizable skins
Fixed memory-related crashes affecting some users
Reverted a VRAM allocation change that caused some users to experience degraded performance with Update 1
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