Man who stabbed burglar guilty of manslaughter

Post by **sbp** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 2:42 am

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 0,00.html/

A FATHER-OF-TWO who stabbed a “career criminal” to death with a bread knife after finding him burgling his family’s home was found guilty of manslaughter yesterday.

Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, shook his head and fought back tears as an Old Bailey jury cleared him of murder but found him guilty of killing Roger Williams.

Hastings, who was remanded in custody to be sentenced next month, faces a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

Amid cries from his family in the public gallery, Hastings shouted “look after the kids” to his estranged wife Nicola.

She replied “love you” before he was led away to the cells.

The prosecution claimed that Hastings had overstepped the mark and “meted out his own form of punishment” when he stabbed Williams 12 times, mostly in the back. Hastings insisted that instinct took over. He believed that he was protecting his children, a boy of four and girl of two, and their mother. He later discovered the family was not at their home in Tottenham, North London.

The case has drawn comparisons with the jailing of Tony Martin, 57, who shot dead Fred Barras, 16, as he burgled his home in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk. His life sentence was later cut to five years and the conviction reduced to manslaughter on appeal. Malcolm Starr, from the Tony Martin Support Group, said that Hastings should never have had to face a jury.

“Anybody who enters your property should do so at their own risk and the person who owns the property should be allowed to defend it however he sees fit,” Mr Starr said. “Who can predict what effect fear will have on any one person?” The jury of six men and six women found Hastings guilty of manslaughter on a 10-2 majority verdict after 13 hours of deliberation.

Williams, 35, who had many criminal convictions, including some for violent offences, was wanted by police. He had carefully selected the property where Hastings’s wife and children live.

Hastings, a gas engineer from Wood Green, North London, told the court that when he visited the home in January, he found the front door had been forced.

He picked up a bread knife “to scare” the intruder who was upstairs. But, when they came face to face, Williams charged down the stairs and appeared to attack him with a machete, he claimed.

No machete was found, but the court was told that Hastings may have mistaken a jemmy that Williams was carrying that he had used to force entry to the home.

A struggle ensued during which Williams was repeatedly stabbed. Hastings suffered a hand injury. After the fight spilled outside, Williams staggered away.

Hastings said he panicked and threw away the blood-stained clothing and knife after realising that he might have injured Mr Williams and be in trouble.

The court was told Williams had suffered 12 wounds, three of which were potentially fatal. One knife blow penetrated the heart. He died on the way to hospital.

After the brawl, Hastings discovered that his family was staying with relatives. He said that he had intended to call the police before the fight, but he feared that his children were in danger. “I thought I heard my daughter crying,” he said. “I thought I heard men’s voices. I thought someone had the children up there. I thought something was happening to them. I decided to help my family and scare whoever was there off. I never intended to stab anyone.”

Peter Kyte, QC, for the prosecution, told the jury: “The law recognises a man is entitled to defend himself, his family and his property only if his action does not go beyond the reasonable and the necessary.

“There is no doubt Mr Hastings stumbled across a burglary. There is no doubt that Roger Williams was a thoroughly bad hat in the eyes of the law. But, as a human being, he is just as entitled to the freedom to live as anyone else. We argue that, in this case, alas, this man overstepped the mark and went some distance beyond that.”

Outside the court Nicola Hastings said: “It’s wrong. There’s no justice.” Anthony Branley, solicitor for Hastings, said an appeal would be launched. “We are shocked by the jury’s verdict in this case,” he said.

“In our view, the evidence clearly showed that Barry-Lee Hastings at all times acted in self-defence when attacked by an armed burglar who had a long history of burglary and violence and who was on the run from the police at the time of this incident.

“Most people will recognise that the verdict today represents an appalling miscarriage of justice and flies in the face of common sense. We shall do everything possible to ensure that this conviction is quashed on appeal.”

John Davies, Williams’s cousin, said: “Despite Roger’s previous background, he was entitled to a fair trial like Mr Hastings. It is a tragic case.”

Hastings, originally from Glasgow, has a conviction for burglary and police cautions for carrying a knife and causing actual bodily harm.

TheSovereign · Post by **TheSovereign** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 12:40 pm

OMG can u see the liberalism in this?
would it be the same if that judge was and jury were conservative?
my god the world is lost!(kinda dramatic aint it?)
whatever can we do to save ourselves from the communist scum!

b-man1 · Post by **b-man1** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:23 pm

wow. law or not...if someone messes with a loved one or enters your home without permission...all bets are OFF. that's an unwritten rule that EVERYONE should understand.

sorry, but a person that breaks into a family's home has NO RIGHTS at that point. grrrrr. :|

Post by **FlyingPenguin** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:52 pm

Shit, the world is going nuts. If it had been the wife that stabbed him to death, no jury would have convicted her.

So if I find someone in my home at 3am, I have to kindly as him to leave and not shoot him I guess.

F@ck me if he shoots me instead

Post by **sbp** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 6:15 pm

What should have happened was the thug be invited in to sit down for a nice cup of tea and explain why he is robbing.

hame

Excuse me Mr. Burglar sir, is that a bat or shotgun? Ok stay there for a minute while I get something equivalent. <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~sbp777/smilies/disgusted.gif">

<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~sbp777/pics/trespass.jpg">

blade · Post by **blade** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:26 pm

In a way, I can understand why he was charged. Did it really take "12 stabs of a knife" to stop the intruder? Obviously that's why he was charged and found guilty, he did go overboard.

But still, he was defending his home and thought he was protecting his family so rage took over because of what he perceived could happen. I can see giving him maybe a few months at most, but that's it. Even if he did go overboard.

What kind of message does this send out to burglars? Damn, they know they are protected from bodily harm if they break into ones home! :; Isn't this like giving them more rights than the people in the home he broke into? duh! In fact I think the best message is to not charge him and give him zero punishment, that will send the appropriate message to any future intruders.

Anyone breaks into my home, I'll just bury them somewhere because they will be dead if they resist me wanting to keep them here till the cops arrive. If a tussle starts, what choice would we have but to kill them, what and let them probably do the same to us? <i>"Ok mister, you wait here pretty please till the mr. cop arrives, ok. And you may keep your gun/knife"</i> How do we know their intent was not to kill us or our family? It happens a lot as we all know. Happened locally here several times recently. One broke in and savagely killed an elderly couple.

WE WILL DEFEND our home! If they die, well damn they should not have illegally broken into my home. Screw em, they deserve to die if they break into ones home. Allowing us to legally defend our homes will stop a lot of burglaries and the killing of innocent people.

TheSovereign · Post by **TheSovereign** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:29 pm

belive me if somone walked into my house i do everything i can to make sure they are dead
short of incinerating the body

Post by **sbp** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:51 pm

As pointed out elsewhere: 12 times might sound excessive, but do you know how long it takes to swing a knife 12 times when the adrenaline is pumping? I'm guessing the entire thing could have happened in the space of 1-2 minutes at most, while the brain is working on compressed time.

succubiss · Post by **succubiss** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:10 pm

unbelievable.

Anyone attempting to harm my family or property will find a butter knife handle shoved slowly the wrong way into their eye socket. and that's only the beginning.

injustice!

PreDatoR · Post by **PreDatoR** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:17 pm

Just how the system works... Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't... A parole officer told my dad one time. Too keep an odd ball knife in the house one that don't match anything. That way if someone breaks in you shoot them and they don't have a weapon. Well now they do... It sounds like that guy wasn't armed at all but still my house you illegally entered and that is a threat and therefore you shall die... Thats how i see it. There's been a couple case around here of people gettin' robbed and being home and killing the robber. They got off though. Both cases the robber had a gun and they got their heads blown off with a shotgun. Wasn't even a trial on either one...

d_b · Post by **d_b** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:25 pm

That sucks

A punk came into my house univited, threatened my daughters and I beat him within an inch of his life. The cops told me they talked him out of pressing charges. WTF I said. I told them anyone threatening my family, especially my girls, was going to get their ass kicked.

PreDatoR · Post by **PreDatoR** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:33 pm

Good for you d_b... I swear to god if anyone lays a hand on my daughter in a manner that they shouldn't i won't hesitate to beat the living hell out of them...

Pugsley · Post by **Pugsley** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 11:25 pm

If all this has tought me anything its tought me to become a robber... they have more rights then regular people.

At work we have to set up saftey cones on the dinos before we close so that if sombody breaks in and hurts them selfs on the dinos they cant sue us for not having dangerous equipment properly marked!!! Total bull shit. im thinkin of not puttin the cones out and breaking in and twisting my ankle on them and suin the pants off them.... AGAIN TOTAL BS!!!

Sombody breaks the law they have no rights. Just like the people in prison, What rights do they have? if the gaurds are a little mean or the cells are a bit cramped, so what? if you didnt break the law you wouldent be there. when you break the law and are found guilty the constitution should not apply to you at all!! Hell... put all the inmates into hard slavory cleaning nuclear reactors with out suits!

jasper · Post by **jasper** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:27 am

I know that I would fight to the death for my loved ones as most others would. On your own private property I think that should be legal... to defend what is yours. My weapon of choice ... 22 Ruger handgun. Might not be a smart thing but I like shooting it and I'm good with it

Just a girls opinion

Cheap · Post by **Cheap** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:42 am

since it was a "weak" knife, he probably didnt really know if it was penetrating and doing any damage, so he just kept swinging away. i dont understand how any jury could find him guilty, its terrible.