for a 400mhz differance this is pathetic!

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 1:36 pm

http://www.xbitlabs.com/cpu/pentium4-1700/

mostthe scores have theTbird in da lead and it is about 400Mhz slower. even if they were Priced the same I would get the tbird. AMD is AOK.

Greg

smb · Post by **smb** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 1:45 pm

this Intel thing is funny. You can almost compare them to Cyrix, and the way they use to rate their processors.

Kakarot · Post by **Kakarot** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:43 pm

that was a pretty good artical until the conclusion. Then you can tell he just doesn't want to bash Intel..tho he knows the p4 sucks ass.

As you have learned, Pentium 4 works well with modern games, and Athlon is better for office applications and content creation programs.

Huh? the only gaming benchmarks the p4 won on were like Q3 at 640x480!... all the game benchmarks that were done at 1024x768x32 were all even cause the video card was the bottleneck. So it wouldn't technically matter what cpu you have.

Of course, Pentium 4 is far too pricy yet and demands the unattractive RDRAM, though Athlon too suffers some shortcomings. In particular, its 266MHz versions, especially the elder ones, are not available countrywide, besides DDR SDRAM is still much more expensive than PC133 SDRAM.

He makes a good point about the P4's price and having to buy the RDRAM at a 200% surcharge.. but then ruins it by rattling off babble about the 266fsb tbird's not being available country wide and ddr ram being "much more expensive than pc133"? DUH

I guess he doesn't use the internet to buy things. Oh and lets not mention the fact that the p4 1.7 just got its ass kicked in 85% of the benchmarks I just ran by a 1.33 tbird.

[Edited by Kakarot on 04-23-2001 at 03:46 PM]

tunis5000 · Post by **tunis5000** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 7:04 pm

There's a reason P4's at higher MHz are "slower" in games than the T-Bird, I'm sure all you techies know why...

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001 ... dex.x?pg=2

(there's tons of reviews out there today)

Anyway, it's all about the "bang for the buck" tho, and compatibility/stability is a major thing for me as well. I'm currently running a P3 800Mhz and I'm just starting to get the "upgrade itch", I usually do my 2 major upgrades in June and around Christmas (when I get my bonuses from work

), so I'm starting to read the hardware reviews again, and I just have no idea what I'm going to be getting come June. I don't really want another VIA mobo but I do want a fast CPU for gaming. When do the Palamino's (sp?) come out?

VidmanII · Post by **VidmanII** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:24 pm

It's pretty simple realy........It's called potential advertising dollars. No matter how hard he tried to gussy up the P4 in print, his own benchmarks tell another story.

A good analogy would be like telling your folks that your prom date doesn't look too bad for a 48 year old hooker.

"Intel inside" is a warning label.

smb · Post by **smb** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:00 pm

intel is aiming at first time uneducated buyers. they equate cpu speed with power. If you look at oem systems, and unless you configure it yourself, alot of them come with 16 meg video cards, and somewhat small drives.

LikeLinus · Post by **LikeLinus** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:15 am

This is rediculous, especially from you people. Bashing Intel around here has become like bashing Microsoft, yet you generally don't actually know anything about the company.

Lets try and give you an example to better help. Some of you people like cars...so here goes.

A. Ford Lightning 360hp weight is 4000lbs.
B. Chevy Z28 320hp weight is 3000lbs.

Lightning does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds
Z28 does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

But wait, the Lightning has more horsepower!!!!! Oh no!!! It's a rip off!!! They suck!!! The lightning has to have more horsepower than the z28 to have the same 0-60??? What a rip off???

Intel is a totally new architecture using longer pipelines (consider this weight), but with more MHZ (Consider this horsepower). The idea behind using this new "motor" or "Architecture" is the fact that you can keep "tuning/increase mhzs" this new engine and get more "horsepower/performance"

I'm still waiting for SMP AMD's so i can run a dual rig! I've got my server running Dual p3 500's, but i want a 1.5 or so dual rig

that'll be freakin sweet.

Hipnotic_Tranz · Post by **Hipnotic_Tranz** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:28 am

I don't bash intel for the new architexture; I bash them because they really don't offer anymore than AMD does and AMD is cheaper. The P4 is comparable to the GF3. Both have new architexture which are not implemented in many things at all, therefore they are useless in a sence. Why get a GF3 when you can get an Ultra for less $$$? Most likely, the time those features are implemented in programs, the GF3 will be too slow and the GF4 will be out. Similar to the P4. By the time these features are actually being beneficial to people, the P5 will be out or something.

These are just my thoughts...

Lethal_[X] · Post by **Lethal_[X]** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:05 am

You can not even judge the P4 yet, there is no program that is truely programmed to take advantage of SSE2. When programs start taking advantage of the P4's unique instruction set, you will see games continue to get faster, unlike the Athlon, which has no real future. If you upgrade your PC every 6 months, or even year, the Athlon is the better buy. But if you want to keep your computer as a whole for 2-3 years, than go for the P4.

Also, the P4 has dropped in prices so much it is amazing. The 1.4Ghz P4 is going for about 40 more dollars than the 1.33Ghz T-bird, so the prices are nearly the same.

-Alex

hammer01 · Post by **hammer01** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:25 am

Technically Lethal all of the aforementioned chips will be dead ends when 64 bit OS' hit the markets with the 64 bit chips. But we both know that, that will not be the case. AMD and Intel will both be used in many organizations and destops years from now, I still use a 486 as a Linux router and a Pentium 120 as a Linux file server (this setup is actually quite sweet with a P120 and 48 meg of ram, a 10/100 nic and Red Hat 6.1 I have 3 - 15 gig hdd's running software raid 5 which gives me redundancy and speed). They may not sell these old chips but they will still be in use, which means we need to get the most out of our dollar, and how most of us choose to do that is by going AMD (I actually go with what the best bang for the buck at the time whether it is Intel or AMD, buy lately AMD has been beating the stuffing out of Intel).

nexus_7 · Post by **nexus_7** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:49 am

LikeLinus...your example SUKS at best! you would be better to compare a Cavalier(year releaser) to a present year Cavlier. sorry to break it to U but your intel stock is in the craper and that is because they RUSHED there el CRAPO p4 to market cause there knees were a knocking because the Tbird ruled there p3. Maby it is You who is Dumb because you spout out info like you actually know wha U are talking about. The ONLY reason the p4 has such a LONG pipeline is because that is how they can Ramp up the clock speed. they dont want another p3 1300 debocal on there hands. Apparently they would rather have this ILL proformer to contend with. I would continue Schooling U but I have 2 go. But if you continue 2 spout out and proving your idiocy ILL BE BACK.

In case you cant tell or are wondering the only time I ever see you spount out about anything iw when soem on "badmouths" a company. Hell the p3 bx combo rocked!

Greg

[Edited by nexus_7 on 04-24-2001 at 10:41 AM]

Kakarot · Post by **Kakarot** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 9:21 am

I wasn't necessarily bashing the p4 itself more than I was bashing some of the retarded comments in the conclusion of the artical. If you read through the artical the Tbird 1.33ghz beats the P4 1.7ghz in almost every benchmark except ones like Q3 at 640x480... or any of the ones that the only thing they need is memory bandwidth and could care less about processor speed/performance... in which case those shouldn't even be included as this was a review of a CPU and not a memory platform.

And you say that programs aren't "Optimized" for the p4 yet? WTF? when were they EVER optimized for ANYTHING AMD/3Dnow? Just about every program/game out there that has been/is being written has been done so with Intel in mind, NOT amd. So lets not start whining about that.

And Likelinus's comparison was ok(tho you're suggesting that the weight of a car was increased just so they could ramp up the horsepower of the motor). But the problem is that intel purposly increased the pipeline so that they could ramp up the mhz much easier. Fine, but why are they taking so long? If they ramped straight up to 2gig then the P4 would be winning all these benchmarks and that would be that. But they're just NOW releasing the 1.7 and thats getting stomped by the tbird 1.33/1.2 pretty easily. If its sooo much easier to up the clock speed then why aren't they, at the very least so that they can say their new chip wins on every benchmark over AMD.

Danielm7 · Post by **Danielm7** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:04 am

Well I'm not nearly at the stage of bashing intel even though I have 2 amd systems at home. But I'm going on the bang for the buck theory, if a amd chip will be just as stable and just as fast for much less they will get my money, if the p4s came out, were faster, memory didn't cost a arm and a leg and were cost competitive I'd go for them, simple as that.

Syn · Post by **Syn** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:29 am

edit

orta forgot what my point was..LOL

LikeLinus · Post by **LikeLinus** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:51 am

Nexus?? I'm not exactly sure how i offended you by just pointing out the obvious that the P4 is an entirely different architecture and this is the reason behind it being slower clock for clock with the older architecture of the p3 and athlon. You say the only reason they make the p4 is to ramp up clock speeds. This simply isn't true.

The new Hyper Pipelined Technology doubles the pipeline depth to 20 stages, significantly increasing processor performance and frequency capability. A Rapid Execution Engine pushes the processor's Arithmetic Logic Units to twice the core frequency, resulting in higher execution throughput and reduced latency of execution. The 400 MHz System Bus, the improved Advanced Dynamic Execution, and an improved floating point pushes data efficiently through the pipeline for lifelike video and 3D graphics. Along with Streaming SIMD Extensions 2 (SSE2) that extends MMX technology and SSE technology, and the addition of 144 new instructions.

The 400 MHz system bus provides a 3.2 gigabyte per second transfer speed between the P4 processor and the memory controller and is the highest bandwidth desktop system bus available, delivering more responsive system performance.

So simply saying this cpu was designed to just ramp up Mhz isnt true, its far from it. They wouldnt need an entirely new architecture to just increase Mhz. They would have just made the longer pipelines in the P3.

Kakarot, the weight reference probably wasn't right, but you got the general idea. P4 isnt a great chip, but it isnt a bad one either. The point was, as long as it performces, who cares? Sitting here bashing it is just sad. Reason they are just now releasing 1.7 is becuase there is money to be made from 1.4-2.0gigs. It'd be plain stupid for them to do anything else. They own 3/4 of the market and will continue doing so. Just because they aren't winning all the benchmarks really doesnt matter? How fast is word/excel/outlook really going to run for the mass population @ 1.3 vs 1.7gigs? I still run a p3 933 and i bet my Counterstrike runs just as good as your 1.3gig Athlon. So its basically a wash.

NExus you can bash intel all you want, but AMD has it's downfalls too. Why do you think they are going to a pure silicone for their next cpu? They run hotter and cant run them past 1.5mhz. Isn't that the same as intel having to use longer pipelines to achieve higher mhz. AMD still doesnt have a mobile athlon processor, after almost 2 1/2 years. I can go on, but its pointless. Both companies suck, and both companies rock.

[Edited by LikeLinus on 04-24-2001 at 12:15 PM]